Dialogue [Iran-Britain relations; situation of human rights in Iran in the future; freedom from the Shi`ah point of view]

 [Russell Kerr: There are widespread propaganda in the US and Britain claiming that if Khomeini assumes power in Iran, he will pull the country back to five hundred years ago. They say that your movement is traditional and retrogressive; they say it is a plan against the Shah's modernization. In our opinion it is important to introduce the progressive aspects of the Islamic movement. I have the time and opportunity for the introduction of these aspects; and I am doing so to help Iran's future.]
Imam Khomeini: What you have seen in the media is merely Shah's propaganda. Huge amounts of money have been spent in this regard to safeguard the Shah. Well, you just see what the people's scramble is. Are the people retrogressive? Is the exclamation for independence and freedom retrogressive, or the Shah's claim?Islamic government is identical with development, civilization and progress; it is not against them. Under the Shah's rule the country is moving toward deterioration and retrogression. He has kept our youth and our culture backward and does not allow them to complete their studies; our universities are retrogressive and dependent; the ruling system is dependent on others; and dependence is indeed retrogressive. Our economy is in shambles; it is dependent on others. We do not have industry; it is assemblage, not a progressive industry. We want an independent nation, independent country, and an independent economy, but the Shah is a hurdle in this way. We, and the nation, have risen against the Shah, for he, not us, has kept the country retrogressive. Are we reactionary? The Shah is reactionary. Currently he is enforcing the medieval laws in the country.
[RK: What would be the situation of human rights in Iran's future? What is your plan for the State Organization for Information and Security (SAVAK)?]
IK: SAVAK? No, we won't need it. There will be no pressure. SAVAK has had nothing except oppression, suppression, and encroachment upon the rights of the people; it won't exist in the Islamic government. The Islamic government will be based on the human rights and its observance. No organization or government has cared for the human rights as much as Islam has. The head of the state in an Islamic government is equal with the lowest person.
[RK: Your enemies claim that the rights of the women in the Islamic government will be violated, the present rights that the women have gained during the Shah's rule will be revoked. Of course, I do not personally believe in it. What is your opinion?]
IK: The women are free in the Islamic government; their rights will be identical with those of men. Islam emancipated the women from the captivation of men and put them on an equal footing with men. The propaganda carried out against us aim to misguide the people. Islam has guaranteed all the human rights and issues. Due to the oppression of the regime in Iran, there is neither any freedom for the men nor for the women now; in Islam, there is freedom for every one.
[RK: What is the meaning of Shi`i freedom? One of the Ayatullahs in Qum- your brother- gave a very spiritual answer about the free values of man to a member of our group, a very attractive answer.]
IK: One of the exclusive principles in Shi`ism is struggle against oppression and oppressive regimes. The Shi`ah fought against the dictatorship from the first day of its emergence; they fought against oppression and hegemony, made sacrifices and were killed [in their struggles]. And the Shi`i school of thought has guaranteed the freedom of man by offering blood. There is no other school like Shi`ism in other religious sects to rise against the wrong. This is an outstanding feature of Shi`ism.
[RK: Do you see any other solution except the Shah?]
IK: There is no hope; even if the Shah is set right. Neither the people nor Islam allows this. The crimes committed by the Shah's regime are numerous.
[RK: What is the nature of your relations with the National Front? Have you held any meeting with them recently?]
IK: We do not have any relations with the Front. Only Sanjabi came and we explained our stances to him- not as a representative of the Front- and he accepted them.
[RK: I am surprised. They know you as a leader in most cases- religious and political leader. Why such a great gap is there?]
IK: It is not the question of gap. I have been accepted as the leader by the nation; I am not the leader of the Front; I am the religious leader- in fact the basis of religion is politics. The Iranians have accepted; and therefore they[ the Front ]have said on their own.
[RK: You have a dual role- the leader of the Shi`ah and a political leader; you struggle against the Shah, the fascists and the military officers. But you must have some friends among all the classes; you have your spheres of influence. They are influential figures; they should be strengthened. Why should you not have closer relations with Sanjabi and Forouhar so that they move in the same direction with you?]
IK: We have equal relations with all the citizens of Iran. It is not correct for any religious, political leader to attach himself to a specific front. We establish relations with the entire nation. Special ties are against the interests.
[RK: You need good political friends, and in a very tough war you need such people.]
IK: Of course we need all the political figures; we need them. We do not have relations with a specific group. The entire Iran is united, and all of us want to accomplish the task, and since the ummah wants it, everybody is encompassed by it and they go ahead with the help of all.
[RK: What is the future plan for the country? Is it a socialist plan?]
IK: No; it will neither have a socialist leaning nor a communist tendency; it will be a plan based on justice, democracy and the constitution; of course its own specific constitution ...
[RK: Socialism in our view is a common school.]
IK: The Islamic laws- if implemented- will result in justice, without having the corruptions of other systems.
[RK: What is your opinion about the British government?]
IK: In our opinion, the miseries of the East in general- and those of Iran in particular- stem from these three governments, that is, the United States, Britain and Soviet Union; these are the ones who helped Rida Khan and Muhammad Rida dominate us; and we want to emancipate ourselves from their domination. The nation has risen to get rid of domination. What the nation wants will be accomplished.
[RK: What will be the nature of your relations with South Africa and what will be the role of Iran's oil in the Third World?]
IK: They will be contrary to the past policies of the Shah's regime.
[RK: If you conquer, what will be the nature of your relations with Britain?]
IK: We have not had any war with the British nation and will not have any. These governments are aggressors. If they treat us on the basis of goodwill and respect, we too will treat them in the same manner.