Interviewers: The radio and TV reporters of France (printed in Figaro)
[Introduction: In the beginning of the great historical movements, some insignificant events and actions sometimes leave a big impact and assume significance, becoming the cause of speed and urgency. The circumstances in which the interviews of Imam began and the elimination of impediments in publishing them are of that sort. Among them, Imam's second interview in Najaf and its publication in Paris has a tale to it, a summary of which, in the words of Mr. Sayyid Ahmad Khomeini, is as follows:
" After Imam's interview with Le Monde, other interviews were requested in the course of the repeated calls from newspapers, magazines, and radio-television of various countries. It is said that the great number of requests for interviews were because of the thirst on the part of those in the world of politics for information on the situation in Iran and, likewise, on the dimensions of Imam's thoughts. That interview was so explicit and illuminating that, in the conditions that Iran was considered to be an island of tranquility, it gave rise to many doubts. Everybody wanted to know how the Imam, sitting in the corner of a room measuring 2x3, was able to talk about a great upheaval and to give the tidings of the great Islamic revolution. On the other hand, the two governments of Iran and Iraq, more than the other regional governments, were overcome by fear as Imam was in Iraq from where he was leading the Iranians. The Iraqi authorities announced officially that Imam did not have the right to grant interviews. If anybody wanted to interview him, he would have to notify the authorities. Simultaneous with these imposed restrictions, we acceded to the request for an interview from France's radio-television. After the arrival of the French reporters in Iraq, the Iraqi security organs got wind of the matter, mobilizing themselves to the fullest extent to prevent the interview from being held. I told my very good friends about this; and we agreed to so handle the matter that the authorities would not come to know about the interview that was to take place.
The Iraqi security agents kept tight surveillance over the avenue leading to Imam's house and, likewise, the street in which the house was situated. We informed the reporters through one of the Europeans to take a route that was not being controlled at the time of their coming. It was also arranged to meet the reporters in one of the remotest streets of Najaf and ask them to enter Imam's house through another door which was almost unguarded. They had placed their filming equipment in the avenue which, because of its heaviness, had to be brought perforce via the main avenue. After transferring the equipment to the house and the agents' coming to know of it, it did not take much time before the doorbell rang and some of the security personnel entered the house. They wanted to stop the interview from being held, but I had locked them in after their entry. It was some time before they realized that they were imprisoned in our house, and that there was nothing they could do about it. In spite of their efforts to go, I did not allow them to do so. The reporters left as soon as the interview was over. I opened the door after a while whereupon they hurriedly left the house or their prison. We received news that the reporters had been arrested in Baghdad; however, they had dispatched the tapes in a certain manner.
Following this interview, the attitude of the Iraqis towards the Imam, and those concerned with such matters, became very rough and rude. It was not long before Imam was on his way to Kuwait, subsequently proceeding to France. The French government banned the publication of Imam's interview, and did not allow anybody to interview him. The interview that Imam had given the radio-television had not been published as yet when, one day, I saw it published in Figaro newspaper. We later heard that Figaro had bought the interview from the radio-television for a sum equivalent to five hundred thousand tumans.
The commencement of Imam's interviews has an interesting story as well that I am relating once more. The beginning of the interview took place in the form of negotiations, in that they were not questions and answers. The editors of Le Monde, Figaro or others would come to Imam and then publish the conversations that they had with him, saying that this was not what their government had forbidden. The public opinion in France finally became so formed that the French government was obliged to allow the interviews to be held.]
Question: [How do you conceive of the" Islamic government"? Does this mean that the religious leaders will govern? What are the stages of this government?]
Answer: No; it does not mean that the religious leaders themselves are to run the government. They will lead the people in providing for the needs of Islam, and as the vast majority of the people are Muslims, the Islamic government will enjoy their support and will have them to rely on. In the first phase, the aim is to make the country independent, sever foreign links, and end external domination as well as the internal foreign-dependent domination. Likewise, any kind of domination, be it political, military, cultural or economic, not to mention getting rid of expansionism and expansionists- whoever they may be. We also have to give the resources of the country to the suffering people steeped in poverty and diseases who for centuries, particularly the present century, have been afflicted by all sorts of misfortunes because of the misdeeds of the corrupt regimes that have plundered all the resources and the wealth of the country, handing them over to the foreigners or to their local lackeys. The second phase: the complete purging of the ministries, governmental departments, and governmental and national organizations of traitors, opportunists and parasites, and entrusting the affairs to people who are qualified, patriotic and honest. In addition, eliminating the redundant departments and posts that serve no useful purpose for the country and have only been created for the benefit of unqualified people; and also the elimination of unnecessary allowances and liberal payments that have eaten into the government budget. Subsequent to this, there are other phases that will be implemented gradually. In order to begin with these phases and form an Islamic government, before everything else we have to remove this big barrier, the Pahlavi dynasty, from the people's path; otherwise, we will not be able to implement any reforms with the Shah and his relations being around.
Q: [Have you decided for how long you will continue the campaign?]
A: As long as it takes in attaining Islamic and human goals. The nation feels that it is being ruined and sees Islam and the Islamic country on the edge of the precipice of total destruction. It is fed up with the underlings of the Shah's regime who are taking Islam and the country hurtling towards annihilation. The clergy, the politicians and the intellectuals are constantly calling the people to fight corruption. In support of them, the nation will not abandon its Islamic campaign until it has put an end to foreign hegemony and choked the greed of the parasites.
Q: [How is it that such multitudes of people pour into the streets on being summoned by you?]
A: Because the people know us to be in the service of Islam and the country. Because we raise issues that for years have been on the people's minds. It is for this reason that we are the ones who voice the people's demands. On the other hand, whatever they have seen of the Shah and the government has been against the interests of Islam and the nation. The unprecedented demonstrations of the past few months following our calls are national and Islamic in which all the strata of society inevitably participate; it is actually a referendum against the regime which wrathfully declares the demonstrations to be illegal.
Q: [What is your opinion on the rumor of the Shah's abdication and the succession of his son?]
A: As the abdication of the Shah and the ousting of the Pahlavi dynasty are the demands of all the ranks of the people, the rumor of the Shah abdicating is at its height. If it were not for the oppressive hands of the foreign powers supporting him, this rumor would soon turn into reality. Our views are identical to those of the nation, and every Muslim must have this very same opinion, that is the ousting of the Pahlavi dynasty and the removal of the Shah and his descendents. Anyone saying anything contrary to this is a traitor to Islam, the Muslims and the country.
Q:[What is your opinion on Mr. Amini's «1» promise inasmuch as he has told the reporter of Le Monde that if he becomes the prime minister he will ask for time to lead the country out of this impasse?]
A: Only somebody who has standing by the public is qualified to lead the country out of the impasse; those who are not so cannot be successful.
Q:[ What are your conditions for complying with this request? ]
A: On no condition whatsoever with the government and the Pahlavi regime continuing in power. With the Shah in place and the plunderers of the regime at liberty to do as they wish, the request for time is only for deceiving the people. No proposal is acceptable to us and the nation with the Shah and his regime in power. We will not gain freedom and independence by giving time or not as long as this dynasty continues to rule. Victory will only be possible when the hands of the foreigners and their helpers- at the top of whom is the Shah- are cut off.
Q:[ Following the Tehran massacre, why did Carter, who shows himself to the world as being a champion of human rights, support the Shah, and how do you appraise America's role in Iran? ]
A: Claims of being philanthropic and of championing human rights are put forth by those who violate human rights. The champion in this field is the one who violates most, and in this day and age it is Carter himself. Everyone has been a witness to the repeated mass massacres perpetrated by the Shah in many of the provinces of Iran. Recently, Tehran was the scene of widespread massacres on the part of the Shah «2» in which, according to what is said, more than four thousand people were killed. Mr. Carter who made such a fuss over a prisoner in the Soviet Union, did not stint his support for the Shah following the repeated massacres. The head of the Chinese government after his visit to Iran «3»- in the course of which the Shah could not let him pass through the avenues because of fear of the people's insurrection- declared his support for the Shah who is the perpetrator of all the massacres in Iran. And the leaders in the Kremlin are also like them. The aim of America and all the hegemonic powers is nothing other than keeping all the weak countries in a state of backwardness in all aspects: cultural, economic, political and military. They cannot have any plan other than to benefit from our resources and those of the other backward countries; and this is the cause of all the pressures in all respects being brought to bear on us.
Q: [Considering the present economic and social conditions in Iran, and bearing in mind the exhaustion of the oil resources in the future and the country's dependency insofar as foodstuffs are concerned, what, in your opinion, is the solution for ending the crisis in Iran?]
A: If the devourers of our oil and the external and internal parasites are denied access to our oil reserves, and it is sold in reasonable quantities, we will not be deprived of our oil resources so soon. This untold profligacy on the Shah's part in exporting oil and, in return, purchasing scraps of iron are the reasons that have put our oil resources in danger of depletion. By setting up a national-cum-Islamic government, and replacing the profligate traitors with patriotic, God-fearing nationalist figures, we will have rational ways to end the crisis: Firstly, frustrating the plunderers of the Treasury at the head of whom is the Shah who, in order to keep himself in power by drawing checks of a million dollars and more from the Treasury for envoys and the important American fugues, is inflicting blows on the paralyzed economy of the country. Secondly, stopping the leading figures- the ministers, the deputies, the important department heads- from oppression and treachery. Thirdly, the elimination of many of the departmental sections that only create difficulties for the people and are a burden on the Treasury. Fourthly, by making the optimum use of the agricultural workforce in order to develop a sound agricultural sector that had been ruined by the" Shah-America"(!) revolution of several years, and had undermined Iran's agriculture while turning the country into a market to the benefit of foreigners. Apart from these, there are the plans and the other matters suggested by the trustworthy specialists. In this way, the crisis will undoubtedly be ended. I have already alluded to the information of the Islamic government at the very outset.
Q: [The Western press often refers to the Shi`ah as being retrogressive and against progress; for example, the status of women with the covering chador, attacks on cinemas and banks. What are your views on all these issues?]
A: By spending exorbitantly, the Shah's regime has brought some of the newspapers of the West into its service. In order to mislead public opinion in the West regarding the real problems- one of the most important being the departure of the Shah and his oppressive relations, and removing the foreigners' hold on the country- it has resorted to baseless propaganda. It is the Shah who has deprived the people, whether man or woman, of their freedom, and does not allow anybody to breathe. It is the Shah who has made the screening of imperialist films in the cinemas customary so as to divert the youthful segment of society towards corruption. He wants to have our sons and daughters grow up unchaste and ignorant of the piteous state of the country. The Shah's cinema is the center of prostitution and the trainer of mannequins unaware of themselves and even more so of the disorganized state of the country. The Muslim people consider such centers to be against the interests of the country, and think that they ought to be destroyed without the clergy having given any instructions to this effect. Of course, the tragedy of the Abadan cinema «4» was perpetrated by the Shah's agents in order to" substantiate" the Shah's claim of the occurrence of the" great terror" as promised by his opponents, and in which nearly four hundred people were burnt to cinders in the most brutal manner. Worse than the condition of the cinemas is that of the banks which have a more effective role in the bankruptcy and backwardness of the country. The people consider these to be destructive and the cause of the degradation of the country's economy, thus thinking that they ought to be burnt down. It is the Shah that is said to have told the Islamic correspondent in an interview:" My understanding of a woman is that she should be beautiful and bewitching." «5» It is the Shah who has dragged the women into corruption, and wants them to be brought up as if they were dolls. Religion is opposed to such evils and agonies; not with the emancipation of women. The participation of women in the recent referendum «6» proved to all the people the absurdity of the Shah's baseless assertion. The women rose alongside the men and demanded their freedom and independence, condemning the Shah in the process. As is well known, six hundred of our women were killed by the Shah's agents on Black Friday. This is the Shah's perception of the emancipation of women and the" great civilization"!
Q: [What kind of relations do you want to be established between Iran and the Western countries, especially France, bearing in mind the role that these countries have played in relation to the Shah's regime?]
A: I want these governments to officially recognize our government as a really progressive one. They should realize that using force in preventing the progress of the people of Africa, Asia and Latin America will, sooner or later, have its repercussions resulting in the deterioration of their own situation. In my opinion, the West cannot be prosperous at the expense of the rest of humanity. We want all the free and important nations to help us so that we free ourselves from the hold of East and West and that of the parasites who wish to exploit our resources by force.
Q: [What is your view about the term" Islamic Marxists" that the Shah has brought into vogue?]
A: The purpose of this term outside Iran is to give legitimacy to the Shah's despotic control in American eyes. In Iran it is to portray the realities to the people in a contrary manner and to justify the massacres carried out by the simple and believing soldiers so that they fire at the people with ease of conscience. Otherwise, Islam is complete and does not need to borrow the elements of any" ism". Moreover, the struggle of the people of our country is hundred per cent Islamic.
Q: [In connection with what the Shah had stated before the recent events about free elections being implemented, what stand will you take and which candidates will enjoy your support?]
A: If the Shah had consented to free elections, he would have accepted the joint demands of the people of Tehran, and of the large gatherings of people in all the cities of Iran, calling for his deposal, the establishment of Islamic rule as well as independence and freedom. He would have divested himself of the monarchy; that is, he would have declared his monarchy and that of his dynasty to be illegal. But he held his free elections on" Black Friday"! Really, can such a government hold free elections? If what the West is saying of really being on the side of progress is true, it should know that the most sublime sign of the development of human beings is the free expression of their opinion. The Muslims of the country gave the Shah a vote of no confidence in before the eyes of the news reporters from all over the world. Hence, if the West claims to support human rights, it should support the people of Iran which means they should withdraw their official recognition of the Shah's government. They should not accept the government of one who every now and then resorts to slaughtering people for the sake of his own survival.
Q: [The public has been invited to support the campaign of the Iranians. What expectations do you have from the people of the Western countries? Apart from the governments, there are people as well.]
A: My expectation from the public in the West is that they should support the rightful campaign of the Iranian nation. They should request their propaganda organs and press to give the regime's opponents the right to explanation. They should ask their governments:" You are the ones who follow a policy of advancement. Why do you report the topics concerning the opponents of the Iranian regime very briefly and vaguely, whereas you report the topics concerning Iran's regime so grandiloquently? Are not such things inconsistent with freedom?"