Addressees: Claude Chaiye (?) (Special envoy of the Elysee Palace) and Jacques Robert (political director and in charge of the Middle Eastern and Iranian affairs of the French Foreign Ministry and head of its consular affairs) «1»
[Claude Chaiye: In the early days of Your Eminence's stay in France, we called on you and have already told you that there is no problem for your further stay in France.]
Imam: Thank you.
[Claude Chaiye: Your Eminence has not forgotten that in the previous session you explained the outlines of the ongoing movement in Iran and in a meeting with the authorities, I informed them of the objectives of the movement. However, although we notice the fact that these issues presented by your Eminence are related to the domestic affairs of Iran, we have come to bring to your notice the very point that we have always paid attention to these issues and pay attention to them now. The previous conditions are changing so fast and move forward and we do not believe that much attention should be paid to these issues. My colleague, who is much more efficient than I, has come with me this time to inform your Eminence of these very points. I here intend to attract your attention to the point that the French foreign minister pays particular attention to this case and that he has sent this person to meet you.
Jacques Robert: I thank you for admitting us and intend to draw your attention to the point that as Monsieur Chaiye said, we do not intend to interfere in Iran's domestic affairs, but that the objective behind this conversation and talks is to get more information. The French government is interested to know what is going on in the world, and naturally to act independently on its policy. We deem this information necessary for our independent policy. We have longstanding love for the Iranian people. In the Foreign Ministry, I am in charge of the Middle Eastern and Iranian affairs.
The serious problems of the past few months in Iran have attracted our attention. Your unquestionable influence in Iran has caused us to call on you and ask a few questions in this regard. The first question is regarding your general analysis of the Iranian affairs, particularly regarding the Bakhtiyar government and the possibility of the formation of a Royal Council.]
Imam: We have frequently said that we, and the nation, will not tolerate the Royal Council and the Shah. All our miseries stem from the Shah and the monarchical regime. Bakhtiyar, like his predecessors, will be in power for a few days and will have to go.
[Jacques Robert: Do you mean that even the Shah's travel abroad is not the solution?]
Imam: No.
[Jacques Robert: Do you mean[ the Shah's ]complete resignation?]
Imam: Complete resignation! Even now he is dismissed. Resignation is not the issue. We did not consider him legal from the very beginning and now the entire nation has voted for his dismissal. The people do not want the monarchical regime; all have rejected it; monarchy is against our law.
[Jacques Robert: What we have understood from the beginning of this crisis is that the monarchial regime is based on the Constitution of 1906 and is the continuation of the former regime. The main problem is the lack of the implementation of the law, which puts the religious power at the top. Has this been changed?]
Imam: According to an article of the constitution the monarchy and all other regimes should be approved by the people. The regime without the approval of the people does not have any base. Currently, the entire nation neither wants the Shah nor the monarchical system; rather, they want the republic (Islamic Republic).
[Jacques Robert: Therefore the issue is not the reign of this or that dynasty; what will replace the monarchy in this constitution will be the republic- the Islamic Republic. Would you please give some explanation about this" Republic" and" Islamic"?]
Imam: The principle of republican system is what exists in your country as well, that is determined by the people's votes. We say Islamic because our constitution will be based on it [Islam]. We will review the current constitution and will accept what is in congruence with Islam and reject what is in contradiction with it. It is republican, that is, it is democratic; it is Islamic, that is, its law is Islamic.
[Jacques Robert: Except the president, do you intend to have a parliament, parties and interaction of the parties?]
Imam: Yes, all of them will be there.
[Jacques Robert: Will the change be like in France?]
Imam: Yes, it is so, but our law will be Islam.
[Jacques Robert: Suppose the Shah has gone; under such circumstances, will the power be in the hands of the religious figures or those who are acknowledged by the religious figures during the transitional period until the elections are held?]
Imam: In the hands of those, who will be appointed by us, and they are the ones to be appointed by a council.
[Jacques Robert: I am sorry for the current situation in Iran. Our last question is about the role of the army. What is your opinion? Will you preserve it? Is religious power compatible with the army?]
Imam: Basically, we are not against the army. Every country needs an army. The army should be purged. Some people are utilitarian and are treacherous. But others are serving the motherland and must be preserved. Of course, the army with its extensive size which swallows the lion's share of the country's budget will not be tolerable.
[Jacques Robert: In this trip (the trip of the French Foreign Minister to the neighboring countries of Iran), we had gone to the Arab countries of the Persian Gulf. They are extremely concerned about the situation in Iran and think that Iran's instability will disturb the entire region. When King Hussein came to France, he was concerned about this problem, perhaps even Hafiz Asad is concerned about the future events. It is interesting to know what will happen to the stability of the region in the future in the Ayatullah's viewpoint. Given its importance for the world and Iran's weight in the region and in the world, how will you preserve Iran's stability?]
Imam: Iran's stability will be preserved better in the absence of the Shah. The Shah's presence has caused instability and has ruined Iran's national, political, and social aspects. All these must be mended. With regard to the regional stability, Iran will not be the gendarme of the region to maintain the security of the region for the sake of others' interests. However, Iran will cooperate with other countries of the region to maintain peace and security.
[Jacques Robert: One of the countries in its talks with us expressed its concern that the recent developments may lead to the disintegration of Iran. Is such a thing possible?]
Imam: These are Shah's propaganda and futile attempts. It is a lie. The fact is that such a development is never possible and it is not true.
[Jacques Robert: The question is that the Soviet Union, the great world power, is your northern neighbor and has signed the 1921 Treaty with you on the basis of which they can send their forces to Iran, if another country dispatches its forces to Iran or if some forces approach the Iranian borders and pose a threat to the Soviet Union. Given that the Soviets are speaking of this treaty and the Americans have brought their warships to the Persian Gulf, these questions come to the fore.]
Imam: The basis of this treaty with the Soviet Union is illegal; the issue itself will not be materialized either. It is not that one of these would allow the other to enter. When the movement is created, you must accept all its aspects.
[Jacques Robert: The French government is against the war of the superpowers.]
Imam: We are also opposed to it.
[Jacques Robert: Some measures are being taken by the developing and developed countries. Some measures are being taken- in the UN and other levels- and we are also among them. All the foreigners residing in Tehran are worried about the future; that is, whether these relations will continue? What will happen? Some religious minorities, particularly the Jews, have expressed their concern. What is your opinion?]
Imam: After the establishment of the Islamic Republic, these treaties will be studied. What will be acceptable and in our interests will be accepted. The foreigners and minorities are all respectable. The religious minorities are respected in Islam, they enjoy freedom. Bear in mind that they will continue their lives better. The representative of the Jews came here and I assured him that they will be treated respectfully.