Interviewer: A reporter of the English-language Times newspaper
Question: [I would like to know a little bit about your childhood and your profession during that time and perhaps a brief allusion to your childhood and the way through which you got to your current conviction. What qualities and values were and are important for your? As a Christian, I do not know much about your culture. Hence, my first question is: what are your beliefs? How and where did you learn these beliefs? How do you practice them? And as the concluding question, would you please explain a little bit about your job?]
Answer: My personal life, like all other individuals, is an incident which is a part of all the incidents that are going on in the world and I do not see any need to explain and illustrate it. But my beliefs and those of all the Muslims are what have come in the holy Qur'an or the Prophet of Islam (s) and have been said by other righteous leaders after him. The root and base of all those beliefs- which is the most significant and valuable of our beliefs- is the principle of monotheism [tawhid]. According to this principle, we believe that the Creator and the Lord of the world and all the universes of existence and man is only the sacred essence of the Almighty God who is Omnipotent and Omniscient and is the Lord of everything. This principle teaches us that man should surrender only to the sacred essence of the Absolute Truth and must not obey any human being unless his obedience is tantamount to obedience to God. Therefore, no man has ever any right to force other human beings to surrender to him. And we learn the principle of freedom of man from this principle, that is, no one has any right to deprive a society or a human being of any right, or legislate laws for him, or regulate his behavior or his relations on the basis of his own reasoning and cognition which is very incomplete or on the basis of his own will and aspiration. On the basis of this principle, we also believe that legislation for man is solely within the power of the Almighty God, as He has also ordained the laws of existence and creation. The salvation and perfection of man and human societies is subject to the obedience to the divine laws that have been imparted to man by the prophets. The deterioration and collapse of man is due to negation of his freedom and his surrender to other human beings and therefore on the basis of this formula, man must rise against bondage and the chains of slavery and against those who call to slavery and captivity in order to liberate himself and his society so that all submit to God and become his bondmen. It is from this viewpoint that our social struggles against the despotic and colonial powers begin. Also we are inspired by this monotheistic principle that all human beings are equal before God. He is the Creator of all and all the creatures are His bondmen. The principle of equality of human beings indicates that the only privilege of one individual over another is the criterion of virtue and cleanliness from diversion and lapses. Therefore, one should struggle against anything that disturbs equality in the society and imposes hollow and vain privileges in the society. Of course, it is the beginning and the explanation of a limited aspect of this principle of our belief- the Islamic scholars throughout the history of Islam have written a number of lengthy books and treatises to explain and prove each of these Islamic issues.
Q: [I would like to know the clear contradiction between your role as a religious leader and the role you play as the leader of the opposition. How did the policy of the Shah's regime lead to your exile? What have the governments of this regime done that have impelled you to oppose them? I see you as a rock, firmly standing in the midst of the pounding events; you are a base in the midst of transient events. Hence, I do not think it is correct to describe you as a revolutionary personality. What is the degree of the importance of your person in the current events and what has been the degree of your personal influence on these events?]
A: If you can understand the concept of religion in our Islamic culture, you will see clearly that there is no contradiction between the religious and political leadership, but as political struggle is a part of the religious duties and obligations, the leadership and conduct of the political struggles too is a part of the duties and responsibilities of a religious leader. It will be enough to cast a glimpse at the life of the great Prophet (s) of Islam and also that of Imam `Ali (`a), who are both religious as well as political leaders. This issue is among the clear issues in the culture of Shi`ism and every Shi`ah Muslim considers it the duty of a religious and political leader to directly intervene in the political and social fates of the society and play his guidance and determining role. The concept of religion and religious leadership in the Islamic culture is different from that in your culture in which religion deals merely with personal and spiritual relations between man and God. But, since its advent, Islam has always protested against the ruling systems in the society and it has had its own particular social, economic, and cultural system, having its legislation for all aspects of individual and social life and does not accept anything other than that which is for the welfare and salvation of the society. While telling man to worship God and showing him the way of worship, Islam teaches man how to live and how to regulate his relations with other human beings; it also teaches him how to regulate the relations of the Islamic society with other societies. There is no movement or practice of the individual or the society that Islam has not ordained a decree for. Therefore, it is but natural that the concept of religious leadership refers to the leadership of the religious scholars in all aspects of the society, for Islam has assumed the guidance of the society in all its aspects and features. As for the uprising of all the religious scholars against the Shah's regime and his governments today, the reasons are clear. Imam `Ali (`a) says:" God has taken a pledge from the scholars that they should not keep silent against the affluence of oppressor and hunger of the oppressed." «1» And it is the oppressive Shah and his clique who have allocated billions of dollars of the country's wealth to themselves, despite the fact that the people are living in an intolerable poverty. Also Imam `Ali (`a) says:" If heretical practices appear in the religion, it is the duty of the `ulama' to reveal their knowledge and not allow the deception, tricks and lies of the heretics to influence and falsify the religion and misguide the people." It is the Shah who through his lies and tricks has falsified the religion of God and also imposes his diabolic desires and those of his masters as Islamic laws on the oppressed Iranian nation and also distorts the facts and realities. It is the duty of the religious `ulama' to expose his real face for the nation. For instance, the Shah destroyed our economy and made the country dependent on foreign countries for its foodstuff, but still is proud of his Land Reform Program. Isn't it a distortion? Or, he is extracting as much oil of the country as he can and with its income establishes military bases for the foreigners. Or, under the pretext of modernizing the country- assemblage industries- mainly with the foreign investment without any coordination with the indigenous economic conditions, he has turned Iran into a consumption market for the imported luxury goods and thus is plundering the country's wealth and then claims to modernize the country. And hundreds of other distortions and treacheries which make it obligatory for every Muslim, and in the first place for the religious `ulama', to rise up and rescue themselves and their nation from these oppressions.
Q: [As for the current situation, I must confess that it has moved very fast before I could even observe it. The new prime minister «2» has invited you to go back to Iran; under which circumstances will this happen?]
A: The prime minister and any other government that come to power with the presence of the Shah are illegal and will have no legitimacy in the people's viewpoint. My return to Iran is subject to the fact that I will be able to render my services to Islam and the Islamic movement of the Iranian nation better; their invitation or lack of invitation do not play any role in my decision.
Q: [You have asked the workers of the oil industries to stop their production. Has your demand received a satisfactory response?]
A: Yes. According to reports not even a single drop of oil is extracted, but we dispatched a delegation to supervise production for the domestic consumption and invited a group of workers to resume their work.
Q: [Are not you concerned about some people who have certain political objectives but have hidden themselves behind what you have risen up for and utilize your situation to attain their goals?]
A: Today, if one studies the Islamic movement a little bit, he would realize that it's a hundred percent Islamic and anybody who is interested to participate in it, must adjust himself with it, otherwise he will be rejected by the people. Of course there are some people who are struggling against the Shah and are not Muslim, but they are few in number.
Q: [Is there any condition according to which you accept the presence of the Shah or his successors to the throne?]
A: There is no solution to the crisis in Iran with the presence of the Shah and the Shah has no other option other than abdication.
Q: [What kind of government are you interested to see in Iran? Are you demanding a government similar to what has now come to power in Iran, or are you willing to participate in it?]
A: We have announced the Islamic Republic and the nation has frequently voted for it through its frequent demonstrations. It is a government based on the people's vote and the Islamic rules and laws.
Q: [And finally, what do you think will happen in the future? Will the civil war be a solution with lesser loss? Is peace really probable? When life returns to normal, how do you envisage the life of an average citizen will be? What is your aspiration and what do you want to attain? Will you be able to attain it outside Iran?]
A: God willing, Iran has found its path and is marching ahead. We believe that after the victory of the nation, through the execution of Islamic laws, a society will be established which will be an example and model for the world nations and for their own redemption and welfare. There will be no civil war and sooner or later the army will join the nation. Basically, except a few army personnel, others believe in the way of the nation and I know their mentality. The Iranian politicians have several times warned me against the army, but they are mistaken; a misconception has been created for them.
Q: [If the leftists capitalize on the public dissatisfaction and capture the power, do you think that you will be able to influence them to observe what is valuable for you? Given the tasks you will have to accomplish, did not you wish to be a younger man?]
A: Such a thing is not possible in Iran. In a Muslim country, where the people sacrifice their blood in the name of Qur'an and God, it is impossible for a government that from the very beginning hoists the flag of atheism and anti-Islam, to come to power. Despite his hypocrisy and pretension to Islam, the Shah's real face was finally exposed and the nation repelled him. The Iranian nation does not need to take refuge in atheistic schools of thought for its belief and faith. The Iranian people want justice, freedom and independence and believe that they cannot achieve them except in the light of Islam and Islamic law. Sparing a few boys who have turned to communism due to their lack of experience, leftism does not exist in its real sense among the Iranian intellectuals who have a deep knowledge of the Iranian society. Islam, nothing else, prevails in Iran.
Q: [How do you see your present role and duty?]
A: Our role is guidance. It has always been so. We explain what we consider useful for the nation, reject what is harmful and try to forward Islamic goals.
Q: [Are you ready to issue a decree for the holy war, if all the ways are closed?]
A: If all the ways are closed, we will study it. But given my knowledge of the army, it would not reach that stage.
Q: [You have personally suffered a lot due to the Shah's regime, have been exiled, imprisoned, and your son [Sayyid Mustafa Khomeini] has been killed mysteriously. Given all these, do you feel any personal animosity against the Shah?]
A: Not at all! I do not have any personal animosity against the Shah. In the struggle, neither my person matters nor my son; I have never felt any personal annoyance against him. I oppose the Shah because of the treacheries he has committed during the past fifty years and the crimes he has committed against my nation.
Q: [You are talking of" my nation" and the fact is that you have become the leader of this great movement. Aren't you worried that the politicians may capitalize on this situation, hide themselves behind this veil, abuse your position, and at the end of the task surface and utilize it?]
A: We try to solve the problems ourselves as much as possible; we act on the basis of what is at our disposal and the nation too supports us. I hope that those who have become fighters today or over the past few days are really committed to struggle and are not opportunists. Of course, in every struggle, particularly in Iran where the expanse of struggle is wide, the opportunists will do something that they cannot do today, but the nation after the victory will, God willing, set them right. God willing!